Here we go again



Ayalon, speaking at a press conference at the Foreign Ministry, said that Israel found weapons aboard the Gaza flotilla, which were used against IDF troops.

The deputy foreign minister said that the Gaza flotilla did not heed Israel’s calls to halt its movement toward Gaza on Monday morning, and stressed that no sovereign country would have allowed such a provocation to take place.

That, of course, will not be reported by the world press.  This was yet another setup, just like the human shields strategy which showed how much the radical Palestinians care for their people.  Gaza sends rockets into Israel on a more or less daily, inexhaustible basis.

From where do you think those weapons are coming?

If Ireland were to be doing that to England, what do you think the UK would have done long before this?  What if your mother was killed by one of those rockets?  Would you say the Irish Hamas are just misunderstood innocents?

So much hypocrisy.

22 comments for “Here we go again

  1. QM
    May 31, 2010 at 15:40

    I don’t even really try anymore, people are too set in their ways. Israel could no doubt have handled this better and the resulting deaths and violence have given the anti-Israeli press and supporters a field day. But given what Israel has to put up with on a regular basis I find it hard to blame them for reacting to blatant provocations like this.

  2. MadPiper
    May 31, 2010 at 15:52

    The Israelis should have just hired the French to perform a “Greenpeace” on the flotilla. Flotilla + mines = Sinktilla.

  3. WitteringsfromWitney
    May 31, 2010 at 16:55

    As QM says James, people are too set in their ways to discuss this rationally.

    When will these countries learn one simple fact – you don’t mess with Israel? How many bloody noses do they need to receive before seeing sense? Egypt learned the lesson quite quickly and the two now live in peace.

  4. May 31, 2010 at 19:15

    I’ll confine my comments to my place but I will add a sigh.

  5. May 31, 2010 at 20:05

    It won’t be over for a long time whilst people who don’t live in either of those countries continue to interfere.

    The Palistinians must be the dumbest people on the planet and considering I’m surrounded by Labour supporters you know that there is a lot of competition for the title.

  6. ivan
    May 31, 2010 at 21:24

    As QM says, too many people suffer from concreteitus to even think about the history of the area.

    For starters there NEVER was a Palestinian state, only a British administration region which housed both jews and arabs.

    The idea of a state for the Palestinians was thought up by an Egyptian, Arafat, when he saw what the Israelis were doing with the, up to then, infertile land. Greed was the motivating force then but it has turned into a political field day now.

    The political leaders of the arabs have no idea of working for a living, why should they when the stupid governments of the west hand out money for doing no more than publicity stunts like the ships.

    Why Israel moved their people off the gaza strip and gave it to the arabs, who have done nothing productive with it, is beyond me.

  7. June 1, 2010 at 06:00

    Israel is clearly a rogue and a terrorist state.

    They exercised the right that a rapist has to beat up the doctor who treats his victim.

  8. June 1, 2010 at 08:51

    No, Steve, it is a Sovereign State which has a right to exist without rockets being fired at it, without boatloads of weapons being shipped into a nearby state, under the guise of humanitarian aid, to be used on it.

    Why do the Left never, ever acknowledge this point?

    Iran is a terrorist state. It exports its weapons to be used on other states. Should it cease to exist? Pakistan is an artificial state too, created around natural divisions of people and yet involving movement of people at its inception, like Israel.

    Should it also cease to exist?

    If a state is rogue – and in Israel’s case, that is debatable, hence the debate above – then what to do with it? Sanctions? Expulsion? Invasion? If the answer is yes, then that is no better than what the U.S. and Israel are being accused of.

    There is some rank hypocrisy in the world over this matter.

  9. June 1, 2010 at 08:55

    Just in the interest of accuracy and truth Ivan, the Romans referred to Palestine :

    I recall it appearing in the map room of the Doge’s Palace in Venice too, along with Judea. Perhaps everyone needs to just get back to their Hellenic roots?

  10. June 1, 2010 at 08:57

    Back on topic…

    Its really just a question of whether there were arms aboard the ship or not. Evidence please gentlemen.

  11. MTG
    June 1, 2010 at 09:06

    @ WitteringsfromWitney

    “When will these countries learn one simple fact – you don’t mess with Israel?”

    I suspected an historical reason for Israeli troops to have taken to the wearing of Nazi helmets.

  12. June 1, 2010 at 09:18

    Wolfie – evidence that there were not? Just in the interest of accuracy and truth, of course.

    Think it through. Israel is under world scrutiny 24/7. The UN and the world’s media is heavily pro-Palestinian and refuses to condemn the daily rocket attacks, which in any other nation would be seen as acts of war.


    Israel has a territory and accepted a division at the start which suited the Arabs but they refused. Subsequent divisions followed wars UPON Israel by the Arabs in league.

    By virtue of the constant attacks on its territory, it has a right to self-defence, not as determined by its attackers and sympathisers but by its elected parliament. We have that right with France. Canada has that right with the U.S. or Iceland.

    That is international law even in peace time.

    When a flotilla of clearly non-friendly ships, during a period of war, is sailing towards you, you have a right to board and search. When your search party is armed, knowing it will not be permitted to search, when that search party is fired on, then the results are a foregone conclusion.

    It did not happen on the other ships. Why not? Because they weren’t fired on. Why only this ship? Something to hide?

    The IDF say yes and they also posted a video of the patrol boarding and being attacked. The world press has conveniently skipped over that point.

    There is rank hypocrisy in these one-eyed condemnations. The loss of life is regrettable and would never have occurred if a flotilla had not been cynically organized to run the blockade, contrary to all agreements and stated policies.

    Once again, sheet this one home to the Muslims. And no, I am not Jewish, I am Christian, I work for no Jewish organization and I have my own theories on the leadership, not far removed from your own.

    But facts are facts.

  13. June 1, 2010 at 09:18

    And you have evidence that the aid ships were firing rockets at Israel?

  14. June 1, 2010 at 09:27

    Steve, that is conflating two separate arguments. The rockets are not in dispute. They constitute an act of war on a Sovereign State. In that situation, boarding a flotilla heading for you, despite warnings to stop, is well within their rights to defend their land.

    The IDF say they found weapons. No one else was on board to say yea or nay, except for Hamas and they would naturally say no. The IDF has posted a video of their patrol being attacked.

    Whom is the world to believe? That’s what this comes down to.

  15. ivan
    June 1, 2010 at 10:58

    Wolfie, I think you will find that all the old references to Palestine are to an administrative area NOT a sovereign state. Also in Roman tomes there was no dispute that Jews owned the land not arabs.

  16. June 1, 2010 at 11:10

    Thanks again – I omitted to address that one here.

  17. June 1, 2010 at 13:46

    The Romans were pragmatists who would indulge any Phoenician delusions of grandeur if they paid well and kept the peace. Empire has dominated the entire region since the beginning of time :

  18. June 1, 2010 at 15:03

    Wolfie -I’m live commenting here:

    1. Started the vid and have now paused it. Immediate red flag- BCE and CE, a dead giveaway. Traditional historians use BC and AD. Modern revisionists use the other designations. We proceed.

    2. The Kingdom of Israel established rule over the region. Other Israelite kingdoms and states ruled intermittently for the following one thousand years, and are known from various extra-biblical sources.

    Between the time of the Israelite kingdoms and the 7th-century Muslim conquests, the Land of Israel fell under Assyrian, Babylonian, Persian, Greek, Roman, Sassanian, and Byzantine rule. Jewish presence in the region dwindled after the failure of the Bar Kokhba revolt against the Roman Empire in 132 AD Nevertheless, a continuous Jewish presence in the Land of Israel remained, with the Jewish religious center moving to the Galilee.

    Therefore the map in the swf is disingenuous – it pretends that the KofI existed only for a very brief time. In fact it lasted a long time and it’s generally accepted that it was the Romans who killed it off in both 70AD and 132AD.

  19. June 1, 2010 at 16:13

    James, I think the point is that autonomy was fleeting for pretty much everyone throughout the ancient era as various empires banged heads time after time. Peoples in the region have intermixed considerably and converted to the victor’s religion and back again to win a quiet life. Its not a basis for an argument.

    What is a basis is accepted law. The right to own property and a peaceful existence. Its not a question of Jew or Arab and longstanding feud it’s a question of Benjamin and Abdul, as individuals they own their own homes that make up the land. It never was up to governments or “International Community” to take it away from any of them; they only lose their rights and privileges to freedom when they, as individuals break the law – such as in violence. I would have thought that you, as an avowed libertarian would understand that more than anyone. No government or state owns the people, it’s the other way around.

  20. June 1, 2010 at 17:29

    Good point.

  21. June 2, 2010 at 05:45

    Jewish historians use BCE and CE. They object to AD and BC for religious reasons, which is quite understandable. Do you regard all Jewish historians as “revisionists”. And what are they revising?

  22. June 2, 2010 at 07:28

    Steve, this argument, as you well know as an Orthodox Christian, is one of refusal to use the Julian/Gregorian designations – it’s an argument of “common usage”.

    Therefore, taking your argument further, there has been widespread usage of other designations by non-Western cultures, especially Asian and within the west by anti-Christians for centuries, e.g. by satanists and so-called Enlightenment figures who took over the scientific establishment.

    To complicate it further, because AD is Latin and the Orthodox arm of Christianity does not like hegemony of the Latin church, perhaps you can fill us in on whether you use AD/BC or not.

    So yes, I’m well aware of that but what you’re also aware of is that I am arguing from the standpoint of common usage and in western literature, that has almost always been, especially in textbooks, AD/BC until the mid-60s and going in to the 70s.

    The reasons for dropping it in literature is the ascendancy of non-Christian revisionists, including the feminists and in school textbooks, as a teacher, I noticed this beginning in the mid-80s and it was getting more common by the mid-90s.

    Another was to call Boadicea Boudicca but that is an aside. Interestingly, my auto-spell checker puts a red line under the latter but accepts the former.

    Where the replacement of AD/BC was shown in sharpest relief was in the area of the dating of the gospels. In google searches, the sites using CE/BCE designations are virtually all non-Christian or revisionist Christians and the AD/BC are the traditionalists.

    As you know, the quislings in the church favour late dating [as do many who either don’t know or are misguided], esp. post-AD70 and the ancient/John Robinson Christians show that of course Mark and probably another two were certainly before AD70 and you’d be well aware why that was vital.

    It is a very accurate test of what the author is going to write and if Igo into a site on the dating and it starts this CE/BCE nonsense, then I can put money on what that person is going to argue. So far, it has been a direct correlation.

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