English Parliament

Tally replied to the post on the Witanagemot:

I’m astounded that the Albion Alliance found some English Nats were for the EU . I’ve been round the traps for a long time and never found any.  In my opinion an English Parliament was another way to crack the EU.

We’re a bit cross-purposes here.  I wouldn’t have thought any English Nats were for continuing in the EU but the referendum is another question.  The problem is one of chicken and egg.  Now I have no doubt you’ve been around the traps and are quite astute – you’d know all about 1688 and the ECA.

When Toque says we could have an English Parliament tomorrow and I say we can’t, I’m not saying we don’t have the right or the means.  We have both and we also have a substantial number of very angry people out there who would march tomorrow.

Where the Albion Alliance came from was the EU angle, rather than the English Parliament angle and the further we went into it, from the banks of new computers to the legalities in the European Court, the more we realized how we’d been sold out by everyone from Heath and Wilson through to Blair and Brown.

If an English leader [and no one else is going to do it] were to stand up in parliament and introduce a bill to create an English Parliament, then it would exist.  It would also have a fair chance in the European Court at this moment, despite all the precedents set by the EU over the past three decades, designed to weaken 1688 and the ECA 1972.

This includes everything from the way legislation is passed and implemented in the EU to the putting in of banks of new computers to the changing roles of the Commission and the EU Parliament and their interconnection – many posts have gone into this in depth, not only on this blog but on many others.

There are two glaring problems:

1.  Which leader sees it in his interests to wind up UK plc and institute England?  Certainly not any we currently have;

2.  The EU has already subdivided England into 9 and the moneys are flowing to the regions even now, with CP graduates in place and already taking over the reins at regional level.  Bankrupt UK plc is a nothing at this moment, except in its debt.

On the other hand, the EU has a mountain of aid to disburse and if it does come down to UK versus EU, money will flow to the regions and to the people via them, it will be made obvious that it is EU money and people will have the choice of either supporting the bankrupt UK which is cutting everything in people’s lives, a fledgling England with no financial base or a flush EU.

Already a bit under half the country, the leftists, are not averse to the EU and if it looks like the moneybags is the EU, the bread on the table and the jobs, then others will come on board too.  There ain’t gonna be no revolution, much as we’re fond of dreaming of it.  Tally, you say once the people wake up.  They’re not going to wake up, man; the EU has this factored in and the people will, as mentioned, just as Ireland did, see a benign EU rolling in handouts and a derelict UK which let them down and then threatened to take away what they still had left.

After September, the crashes and the bad times start – the MSM is warning of it, the financial rags are warning of it, all the astute pundits are warning of it.  The EU is trying to “regulate” the City – what a joke.  The reason is perfectly obvious.

When the EU gets past this last hurdle, at this very moment, of reaffirming the terms of Lisbon, something none of the MSM are talking about, then the way is clear and away they go.  The AA looked at the various legal opinions on whether an English Parliament would stand up in the European Court and it was line ball.

You can say to hell with the European Court but because of what everyone from Heath to Brown signed away, UK plc must consider it plus another important point – that because of precedents which have been set, the EU is in a strong legal position to block England.  England is not even mentioned in its carve-up.

The only thing which could kill off those precedents is if there was a referendum vote in favour of getting out of the EU.  It didn’t stop them in France but it could in England, as they know and fear – hence all the reneging on promises.  But that referendum needs to be put now and not later.

Later, the EU will be pouring in the money and no one will be interested in a separate England, except as a naive, historic dream.

The objection raised by critics is that the EU mainly derives its money from the Big Three and if we threatened to unilaterally withdraw, they’d be knackered, which brings us back to the start – who is going to declare this withdrawal, under what circumstances – will it be partial or total – plus one more thing:

There is a wealth of money in Europe, in the Club of Paris, the Club of Rome, in Zurich, in Bavaria and though it is not EU money, it will be drawn on, no mistake because absolutely none of those bastards is going to see the EU fold when it is this close to its goal.  This money I’m referring to is the money of the old families, the hidden money, a last resort after the BIS’s fictional money can be stretched no more.

Then it’s all change, let’s drop this capitalism nonsense and in comes the new financial structure.

To sum up

There can’t be an English Parliament until:

1.  Some leader stands up and calls for it;

2.  Some sort of indication of the people’s will is expressed and the only legit way for that to occur is either in a referendum on the issue or by a ginormous postal questionnaire, funded by a mega-rich businessman;

3.  The people see some personal financial gain in it.

13 comments for “English Parliament

  1. September 11, 2010 at 00:37

    Chaps! Get a sense of perspective! Of course there are tensions between S, E, NI and W (just as there are between any richer or poorer regions).

    But you cannot put this on a par with the burden placed upon us by the EU. I for one would far rather be out of the EU without an English Parliament than in the EU with an English Parliament.

    It’s all chalk and cheese – what about the London Assembly, which covers a population larger than S or W and NI put together, but has less powers? is the London Assembly a Good Thing or A Bad Thing? Is it just a glorified local council, a talking shop or what?

    I do not know and I do not really care about London, Scottish, Welsh or Northern Irish Assemblies, it’s the EU we ought to worry about.

  2. tally
    September 11, 2010 at 01:19

    “It would also have a fair chance in the European Court at this moment, despite all the precedents set by the EU over the past three decades”.
    Strange sort of Rebels in England to ask the European Court for a fair chance?We just need the UKIP and other groups to declare for an English Parliament and to hell what Brussels and Cameron say. Once there has been a declaration of intent the game is up.

  3. September 11, 2010 at 05:44

    ‘ … money will flow to the regions and to the people via them, it will be made obvious that it is EU money …

    You’ll recall that the ‘U’K has recently been fined £150,000,000.00 because the EU brand was not identified on stationery, advertising and other publicity material associated with projects funded by the EU?

    As you say Higham. it WILL be made obvious.

    You’re spot on with regard to the docility of the general population and the unlikelihood of a popular revolution forcing change in time to do any good but there is really only one possibility that things might be changed to England’s benefit by peaceful means, not three, and that is just as unlikely since your ‘mega rich businessman’ (essentially the ‘old families’ that you allude to) has even more to gain and lose from the success or failure of the World Government project than the ‘wipings of donkeys arseholes’ (Monty Python and The Holy Grail) who govern us at present and is unlikely to plunge his money and expertise into a movement of national renaissance unless he is likely to profit from the inevitable bloodshed.

    I’ve been accused in the past by one of your commenters of advocating violence but that accusation is either a misunderstanding or a misrepresentation of my position. I recognised long ago that participation in the ‘democratic’ political process is pointless if it does not effect desired change and those of us who desire changes that we know are unlikely are effectively disenfranchised. Thus we find ourselves unable to prevent our servants from penalising us if we put our rubbish in the wrong bin or the bin out on the wrong day; thus we find ourselves unable to prevent our servants from beating us to death, with apparent impunity; thus we find that we are to be unable to prevent our servants from taking control not just of our financial records and transactions but of the payment of our earnings too.

    It is not advocating violence to recognise that, the dialogue between the governed and their governors having become an all too predictable and cynical monologue (Was it ever otherwise?), the only way to stop servants who wish to enslave us from becoming our masters is by force, and it is not advocating violence to state that, it being impossible where the political process has become a vacuous monologue, participation will only be engaged in again when desired change is effected by the direct action that is unavoidable.

    I don’t want it that way but, like Englishmen in 1914 and 1939, I must accept that that is the way it is and get on with it.

    Mark Wadsworth: Like you I’d rather live outside the EU without an EP than inside with, but it isn’t all ‘chalk and cheese’ (I’m not at all clear what you mean by that phrase); it’s another problem for the ever present future that must be considered now because the ‘U’K is now meaningless and the EU is no more stable in the long-term than was the USSR, or is the USA. England is now in a unique social, economic and political situation, which may be without historical precedent. Ours is the oldest nation in Europe and it is the only one which faces complete annihilation. The tensions between England and the little nations of the ‘union’ are very much part of the problem and are not of England’s making yet England alone pays the price, partly because it suits the EU’s purpose.

    Tally: You’re absolutely right to allude to the fatuity of asking the EU for a ‘fair chance’ (though what fair means is dependent entirely on one’s point of view) but the embers of English radicalism have always been fanned by the failure of courts to decide ‘fairly’, and have always taken decades, sometimes centuries, to burst into flames. I think you’re mistaken in expecting UKIP to rally to the flag of English nationalism (the clue is in the ‘U’). It’s often difficult, and frustrating, for those committed to a particular cause to understand and accept that others are not. As for declarations of intent: There were referendums in Denmark, France and Ireland which clearly demonstrated the wishes of the people. The results were second referendums, and few can doubt that there would have been thirds and fourths and fifths and so on until the peoples of those countries declared the intentions our ‘masters’ have.

    There’s a contradiction in your comment. You question the virility of rebels who ask a court for a fair chance yet seem to place your faith in a declaration of intent by disparate minority and fringe political groups as the means of detaching England from an anti democratic supranational political project.

    Higham: I’ve asked this before, I know, but could we possibly be given a preview pane for comments?

  4. September 11, 2010 at 06:47

    Tally, sorry, old chap but you’re missing it again here. We’re not asking the European court anything. Barosso’s mob’s first move is to take us there and that has standing in international law, which translates into money. We’ve been stitched up.

    If we could find that leader to go unilateral and say, “We’re out,” then where does the money come from to pay the weekly things? The EU already earmarks much of it and they’re in collusion with the IMF and BIS who dock most of the rest. Yes it’s our money as individuals but it’s taken.

    How do you stop your employer taking your tax and still keep your job? These are the practical aspects. We’d win this in the end but at the cost of a year of no money for food and rent [mortgages foreclosing too], with the European Court putting injunctions on our money. It’s not fanciful to say this would descend to war.

    The only practical step, at this stage, is for an English leader to put the referendum [or tack it onto this other stupid one] and put a strong case to the people of how the EU is bleeding us dry. Who’s going to do that? The TPA might, UKIP would but Cameron?

    William, Mark, I’m off to work – more later in the day.

  5. September 11, 2010 at 19:10

    OK, William, you’ve covered a lot of ground.

    Preview pane – I’d love one but WP is a pain in the butt that way. There’s no immediate one available but if WP people tell me there is, then I’ll find it and put it in.

    “Ours is the oldest nation in Europe and it is the only one which faces complete annihilation.”

    Indeed – it doesn’t face it, it’s happened officially, though not in people’s minds. It’s a disgrace.

    Fatuity asking the EU for anything. Totally agree but that was not what I was referring to. I meant that the moment any of us try it on, we’re sued by the EU and because of our home-grown traitors who sold us out, they have the legal right.

    This is the aggravating thing between some of our fellow English nationalists and those of us coming to it from the EU angle. Toque was against me “using the Witanagemot for EU matters” without understanding that the two are integrally intertwined. We are part of the effing EU now – again and again I have to point out, we’ve been sold out to the EU – they have legal rights over us.

    To get an English Parliament, we first have to get the EU out of our lives. Surely that’s very much a Witanagemot matter – that’s if our compatriots are serious about an English Parliament and not just about some historic nostalgia society. We’re talking realpolitik here.

    I joined Witanagemot for one reason – to help get us out of the EU and thereby to create the conditions for an English Parliament.

  6. tally
    September 12, 2010 at 01:19

    I disagree, whilst pro european mp’s from wales scotland and norther ireland have influence on English affairs England will never get out of the eu or have an English Parliament.
    Not even Ulster Unionists like Paisley have made anti eu noises in the past.
    The only reason the Labour party and lib/dems win in wales and scotland is because they define themselves as welsh and scots, not british. The UKIP must realise the british brand is finished and fight England’s corner.

  7. September 12, 2010 at 05:02

    Tally, you say you disagree but then go on to say something I completely agree with. No one said that was not so – of course it is and all of it from the Barnett to the West Lothian must be resolved. But consider your point:

    “they define themselves as welsh and scots”

    … and then:



    The Committee utterly rejects the proposition that the responsibility for regional development funding should be repatriated from Europe back to the Member State

    It’s clear that the Welsh will take the money from wherever whilst remaining nominally under the UK banner, in order to benefit from the BF and still have influence under the WL. Like a woman, they want it all.

    whilst pro european mp’s from wales scotland and northern ireland have influence on English affairs

    Agreed again. Now, in practical terms, how is this influence to be cut?

    Only by a pro-English Englishman. No Scot or Welshman is going to introduce, allow to be introduced or carry out this process. Also, neither Cameron nor Clegg are interested.

    It’s easy to see why Clegg is not but Cameron, given that the Tories are mainly in England? Here, the elephant in the room trumpets to be heard by the English Nats, “Hey, I’m over here. Hello? Anyone home?”

    Cameron has an agenda which is one thing in reality and another he stated to the party. He stated that he wishes EU powers repatriated back to Britain. That includes Wales and Scotland.

    The reality is that he and the Labour Ashton and all the others are so in bed with the EU and so far up each … well, let’s not be crude. He plans to get “some” powers back so that he, personally, saved Britain and looks good in the eyes of grateful Britons.

    Yet the sovereignty has already been lost for him to do that. This is the point I’m making. Some will point out that it hasn’t technically been lost but this is a three-card trick by the EU, which “recommends” action to the UK.

    No recommendation has ever been rejected by the UK because in realpolitik, it is a euphemism for a command. The continued funding depends on acquiescence. Why the English Nats refuse to look at this is beyond me. They won’t read about it, they won’t consider it as a factor. They see only the Home Nations as factors when it is so obvious that it is the EU calling the tune and that the UK, including what was once England, is knuckling under.

    Consider this chart at 13th Spitfire:


    Where Power Went
    #1 EU
    #2 Regional Parliaments
    #3 Quangos
    #4 Unelected Activist Judges

    Where power should be:

    In the Palace of Westminster, exercised on behalf of elected representatives of the people. Democracy is not a spectator sport.

    But are Nats joining together to get the hell out of this so that an English Parliament can occur? Is it hell:


    There is just total bloody fragmentation. While anti-EU forces are split between rival campaigns, the Eng Nats are covering their eyes and saying, “Bloody Scots and Welsh,” but not going beyond that to see how to stop these Scots and Welsh, which is to isolate them, with them having signed up to the EU and us now out of it.

    And the only way to get out is:

    1. to get this referendum to put pressure Cameron can’t ignore … or
    2. for us to demonstrate in the streets and be vilified by the MSM as being extremist … or
    3. both.

    Will English people support getting out? Not while no one knows what is going on because the MSM refuses to tell people. They currently support the continuation of money into their pockets either through work or the dole and that’s all that matters, politically.

    But offer a referendum on the EU and suddenly there is something they have to consider and the English Parliament is part of that argument. At the moment, it is not part of the argument – just look at the English Democrats’ vote nationally at the last GE.

    The people aren’t listening.

    So Tally, no one’s disagreeing with what you commented above – the next step is to take practical measures to stop what you’re saying is happening happening any longer. Given that no one in Parliament beyond someone like Carswell is willing to put the hand up and no one supports him and it’s not being put to the English people in the MSM and we all can’t even bloody agree among ourselves because we refuse to read the fine print the EU has got us controlled with – then what hope have we?

    By the way, what’s your feeling about AV?

  8. WitteringsfromWitney
    September 12, 2010 at 10:59

    The minute you get an English parliament you have done the EU’s work for them and completed the breakup of the UK into four main regions. The next step for the EU would be to ‘unite’ Ireland. Devolution by Blair was just another backdoor method of implementing the EU’s wish to break up the UK.

    As Mark Wadsworth states, the one overriding wish of all true Brits should be to get the hell out of the EU! Once we are a free United Kingdom, coupled with true devolution of power on all local matters, we then have no need for any regional parliament or assembly.

  9. September 12, 2010 at 13:19

    The question that really needs to be asked of those who are campaigning solely for an English Parliament is this:

    How would the creation of an English Parliament under the present EU regime allow for representation of the English by the English for the English.

    A quick scan of the papers today brings forward a few stories that will not change the imposition of the EU and its laws whether there is an English Parliament or not.

    Police warn of impact of European justice powers

    HMRC Tax inspectors have been given police-like powers to access people’s bank statements, address books, payslips and even diaries
    These powers are a direct result of the Lisbon Treaty which allows governmental civilian bodies the power to act in civil cases with powers granted under the EU Justice Departments Criminal code. (Corpus Juris).

    An English Parliament would not have any power to stop, curtail, alter, amend or repeal either of those powers.

    The present UK government is using the ‘cuts’ to repeal laws in the UK which were formed under our own Common Law using Habeas Corpus (innocent until proven guilty) and replacing them with EU law. an example here on the Extradition Treaties which is simply tricking the electorate.

    These are but 3 examples, there are in excess of 120,000 more…
    So, please tell me what use is an English Parliament without first removing the EU from the equation.

  10. tally
    September 12, 2010 at 20:53

    AV for me is the democracy you’re having when you’re not having a democracy. It does not answer the west lothian question.

  11. tally
    September 12, 2010 at 20:56

    and another thing, as wittering from witney says the eu would unite ireland. which brings me back to ulster unionists, why are they not making anti eu noises?
    trojan horses the lot of them.

  12. September 12, 2010 at 22:42

    If enough people want an English parliament we will get one. Last survey on the subject had support at 68% in favour. The big task is get more people actively campaigning for one.

    An English parliament is far more likely to give us a referendum on the EU than the “UK” parliament.

    Personally I think an English parliament is just about the only way out of the EU.

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