Meredith – anomalies already surfacing

I’m going to run a post at 21:00 each Wednesday and Sunday, in which maybe a paragraph only will appear or maybe a tome.

Based largely on TJMK and PMF posters’ and commenters, often verbatim, with Harry Rag’s entries as well, it summarizes the latest news in the fight which the Knox machine clearly thinks is over but is actually about to build up a head of steam. Already, serious questions are being asked and for the first time, some in the American media are looking properly at the evidence.

In deference to readers who have not looked at the evidence in the original and therefore might still believe Knox and Sollecito innocent and in recognition of the fact that this blog covers many issues, not just this one, I’ll only do those two posts in any week.

If the media had done this at the right time, there would not be the anguish the Kercher family is currently suffering.

This is the current state of play:

#  The Ministry of Justice will it appears start an investigation which is almost unprecedented mid-way through appeals.  Both judges on the appeal are business judges and seem to have got the law seriously wrong. While under the microscope Judge Hellman is going to have to somehow explain his panel’s outcome and where exactly is the proof the ex perps could not have done it.

The next appeal can only be on points of law and not on the appeals verdict itself.  So it is the miscarriage, in terms of law not being followed which is going to be the focus.

An Italian law student writes: “The Supreme Court of Cassation cannot reverse the Appeals Court verdict and issue a guilty verdict.  The Supreme Court can however find the Appeals Court decision in violation of procedural law or in the application of the law. In which case the Supreme court will remand the case back to the Appeals Court for an appeal retrial.

The Supreme Court however rarely reverses a not guilty verdict by the appeal court rendered with so called “formula piena” (i.e. full exoneration from having committed the crime, not just lack of evidence).  Therefore the most likely outcome is a confirmation of the acquittal by the Supreme Court.”

That is gut-wrenching but we have to take as we find and I’m duty bound to include this in this post.

# One early indicator:

“We should be happy for her, the innocent victim of this terrible miscarriage of justice.  Yet there is something disquieting about Amanda Knox, something that slightly chills the blood. Those piercing blue eyes, as cold as the steel of the knife that slit Meredith Kercher’s throat, have hardly flinched during her court appearances. Not since Lindy-the dingo-did-it-Chamberlain was cleared of murdering her baby has a woman so divided public opinion.

Amanda’s prison diaries reveal an astonishing calmness and self-belief. While most 20-year-old girls falsely accused of a vile sex murder would be in pieces, she was planning her 21st birthday party, right down to the guest list. There is hardly a mention of the brutal murder of her friend in the bedroom next to her. It’s all about Amanda.”

# Even The Independent’s Peter Popham is pouring cold water on the parade.

#  Nancy Grace says there is NO innnocent explanation for Knox’s second written confession placing her at the house (with Patrick Lumumba) and including observations that only someone who really was there could have known.  Time and again commentators have come out batting for Knox, read the evidence, and then gone quiet. Nancy Grace’s CNN colleague Jane Velex-Mitchell had swallowed the Kool Aid at one point, but now she is ambivalent and careful.

There was a post called “penultimate” at this blog and in the comments thread, one commenter questioned the DNA evidence. I answered that today, if you’re interested.

Consider this one.

The detail is indeed crucial to this case and Knox’s involvement in it.  There’s so much detail and that’s the problem.  The article linked here goes into just one aspect – the phone calls and how Knox answered on the stand.  See what you think.

Till next time.

UPDATE: I’ve just been sent a message by the Kercher family friend representing Stephanie who asks if all supporters of Meredith would run the photo to the right here as the official photo.

Gladly but I’ll still run the Lyle/Stephanie pic at the top each time as the lead in. I wanted to run the Yorkshire rose but probably that is not something many will associate with Meredith and it is bigger than any one person. This seems the best way now.

Lovely to hear the family has not given up hope yet. Justice will eventually be done.  Time is now on the side of truth – I’m sure it will now be looked at with growing respect.

Mez [official photo – please use if you’re for justice for her]

25 comments for “Meredith – anomalies already surfacing

  1. Debbie
    October 5, 2011 at 23:20

    I strongly feel that too many people ignored what happened that night and listened to the media….an American was in jail in Italy. That’s all they heard. When I first heard, I thought they have to bring her home. Then I started pouring through documents upon documents. She may not have put the knife in Meredith, but she sure was a part of it and the truth has to come out. I pray it does. Please God…let the truth come out. And Amanda will make a load of money off of this. Disgusting.

  2. Debbie
    October 5, 2011 at 23:28

    I would like to add this, I wanted to believe Amanda was innocent but the gnawing feeling in my gut takes me right back to where yes, she is guilty. She loves attention, Meredith was more popular than her and she didn’t like it so the hatred brewed and it went from there.

  3. October 5, 2011 at 23:35

    If you can, use the Mez photo above on any social media or blog. Time is going to tell with this one. If those two were implicated, this is going to become clear and things will unravel for them.

    We probably got too tied up in the revulsion over the Knox machine and now we need to use an evidence based approach only, keep Meredith front and square in people’s consciousness and keep at it relentlessly, as we would with one of our own family.

  4. October 6, 2011 at 00:33

    I don’t know about you, James, but when I watched her at Seattle Airport last night just after she arrived back there, there was something I really disliked about her – it was an instinct, a gut reaction but I’ve learned to trust those over the years.

    There is something not right about that girl – I’m convinced that she was in it up to her neck.

  5. Rene ST
    October 6, 2011 at 00:39

    An old man told me to look into a pot of water and asked if I thought the water was hot or cold. The pot hung over burnt wood, where a fire evidently once burnt but no longer did. The pot felt hot to the touch. On a cool dry day, there was no steam above the pot. And no evidence the water is boiling. I could not judge if the heat I sensed near the pot was exuding from the water as well. I told the old man, I could not conclude with evidence that the water is hot. The old man asked, is the water cold then? I had no answer.

    That’s how I feel about the situation. Not enough to be guilty has been taken for granted as absolute innocence.

  6. mmartin
    October 6, 2011 at 03:14

    Proverbs 12:19

    Truthful lips endure forever, but a lying tongue lasts only a moment.

    http://bible.cc/proverbs/12-19.htm

  7. mmartin
    October 6, 2011 at 03:19

    I sent this email one week ago to the PMF editor:

    “I am sad to predict that the murderers will be acquitted on Monday. I have some experience in court trials, and I wanted to point out the following observation, if you have not already noticed it. …

    I saw a google video of 1 minute for the trial on Thursday. It showed the two convicted murderers entering the courtroom and seated at their desks. They were over-brimming with smiles and a look of total confidence. This suggests foreknowledge that they will be acquitted.

    I hope this isn’t so, but if it is, this information had to have been conveyed to them through political means … and would show corruption at the highest levels. It also would indicate that the … the prosecutors would not be permitted to detain the murderers through any legal mechanism pending the next appeal.

    Also, the murderers are scheduled to speak to the court on Monday, immediately before the verdict is delivered. This means that nothing they say can be helpful to them, and it all will be for show, the court will not consider what they say. I think that the court would not allow this schedule if the verdict is to be upheld. Monday will be a huge circus with the murderers performing front and center, the blood of an innocent woman dripping from them…”

  8. F Hill
    October 6, 2011 at 03:23

    Reading the full Micheli Report answers a lot of questions. A great miscarriage of justice has occurred in releasing Knox and Sollecito.

  9. Andrew
    October 6, 2011 at 08:29

    Ultimately isn’t the real point here that the court has found Knox innocent. Maybe there will be a successful appeal against this- maybe she did do it- I don’t know. All that I do know is that currently she is acquitted and therefore the crime needs investigation to determine the true murderer- and if its her an appeal should be lodged.

    What I find slightly disturbing about your coverage is the hatred for Knox. If Knox is the murderer she should face the full force of secular justice. However that still doesn’t mean that you should hate her- judgement is for the Lord and the Lord alone. Is it not said, judge not that ye be not judged, did not Christ consort with prostitutes and tax collectors, was not the first man that Christ offered heaven to a man who was being crucified for theft? I’m not saying secular justice should not be done on Knox as on all murderers- I am saying I find the vengeful and personal nature of these posts to be unchristian.

  10. October 6, 2011 at 08:49

    Rene T puts an good point.

    Me I have faith in big bucks justice news management and slick lawyers.

    Foreigners locking up cute American Chicks, how terrible. How come it’s allowed anyway?

    They have been found innocent like OJ was. Just not sure I would want to share an appartment with Knoxy… or OJ.

  11. ivan
    October 6, 2011 at 09:21

    Maybe they should investigate the judges Swiss bank account!

  12. October 6, 2011 at 09:29

    Andrew, that is a blurring and conflating which we see much of on the other side, coupled with ad hominem. I’ll leave the readers to draw their own conclusions on that.

    Just on “hatred” itself – this is an overused word. What does it mean? In the bible, it speaks of someone “hating” himself. We have “hate crimes” today, which usually boils down to being against something the left is for. In Turn, Turn, Turn, it says “a time to love, a time to hate”.

    Hatred seems too strong a word, easily misinterpreted, meant to refer to a person’s general demeanour – hates the world – when he may well be quite a loving person, yet down on specific targets, evil people in other words. Even “evil” is widely interpreted.

    In general, I don’t hate. I do detest what is happening in this affair and don’t wish for her machine to get away with it, particularly as she’s clearly guilty on the evidence, rather than on the hype. That’s what the whole debate is over anyway, so you might say she’s not and we’ll go round in circles.

    In my case, if something is wrong or someone is perpetrating a wrong, I do zero in on that person, e.g. Tony Blair. When that person gets away with it, gets off scot free, this creates simmering anger. Anger is not the same as hatred because it is based on the events and actions, not on whom that person is. For example, if Knox had been murdered by Kercher, then my focus would be in incarcerating the latter.

    On a different level, I do dislike Knox personally and what she’s about but once again, it’s more what she thinks she can get away with, with the PR spin, her slovenliness, her unconcern for fellow human beings and so on. I have no opinion on her drugs but do on her sleeping about.

    She and the rest of that family, as so many have said, are not nice people. You can’t look on as they whooped it up in court, as they’d been asked not to, leaving the Kerchers to sit there for an hour in stunned silence and not expect someone not to be nauseated by it. It would be cold and inhuman not to be moved to anger over the treatment of the Kerchers.

    So you’re right – I don’t like them – but I don’t hate them. The proof of that is that when she’s finally inside again, my interest in her ends. Someone obsessed with hatred would not stop there – he’d keep after her, even then.

  13. Reaver
    October 6, 2011 at 11:01

    There’s one thing about this that I can’t get my head around. I hope someone can correct me if I have missed something, or help me make sense of this.

    On the night of the murder, Knox and Sollecito turned their phones off at around 8.40pm. And we know they were switched back on around 10 hours later at 6am. We all know how strange these actions appear on their own.

    We also know Meredith was killed between 9pm – 4am.

    And we know that Knox was definitely at Sollecito’s place at 8.40pm when she answered the door to someone.

    Looking at those facts, and assuming Knox was involved in the murder, the logical implication is that Knox and Sollecito conspired together to murder Kercher, and switched their phones off before leaving Sollecito’s to mask their movements.

    My problem with this theory is that it implies pre-meditation. And a pre-meditation theory I think conflicts with: 1) Guede’s involvement which is a given; 2) most theories put forward about how the murder occurred (with Knox and Sollecito’s involvement) – i.e. that it was not pre-meditated, but either ‘something gone wrong’ or spontaneous.

    So, assuming Knox was involved, these facts present several scenarios:

    1) The murder WAS pre-meditated, which is why the phones were switched off.

    2) It was NOT pre-meditated – but the phones were switched off before anyway, as a coincidence. But that requires a credible reason as to why they would switch off their phones at this time. I don’t think such a theory exists yet.

    3) The timing of the phone records was wrong or not 100% provable – for example the phones were actually switched off at 10pm AFTER the murder.

    4) The window of time for the murder was a little earlier.

    5) There is an unknown and unexplained element here which has not been factored in yet.

    Out of these theories, I think 2) is the most likely, but it’s unsatisfactory. But part of me thinks that there is something in 5). What do people think about this?

    I actually think there is enough hard evidence and facts available for someone very smart to put it all together (the whole case) and prove, without any reasonable doubt, Knox and Sollecito were in on it somehow. And by not relying on the DNA. I don’t think that has been done yet. It needs a Hercule Poirot moment – when he shows incontravertibly how the murder took place at the end. Part of this process will explain all the strange little anamolies like the one above – so it all makes sense. And it will explain what really happened in that house that night – precisely who did what – which we still don’t know. My guess is that there will be some surprises, and it will be a very strange turn of events, involving drugs and sex.

    I think the truth will come out when someone realizes something which has been missed or dismissed, which is a kind of smoking gun. Or some new evidence may come into play which changes everything. I think with so many people now poring over this thing one of these two things will happen.

    The consensus now is split – it seems people either believe passionately one way or the other. But I think in time this is going to become more of an OJ Simpson situation where everyone knows what happened. We are not there yet (and definitely not in the US).

  14. Reaver
    October 6, 2011 at 12:39

    Things are beginning to unravel (quicker than I expected):

    http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2011/oct/06/amanda-knox-judge-responsible?newsfeed=true

  15. October 7, 2011 at 00:49

    Loathing to judge someone without being there when the crime was committed or only being aware of facts put forward by the media in the UK or USA, I do however feel they both had some involvement. Isn’t an appeal really a chance to right a wrong for either the accused or prosecution? If she got off on technicalities then the laws need to be changed, you cant blame someone for taking advantage of a flawed system, put in her shoes, anyone else would do the same thing. Bit like saying Conrad Murray killed Michael Jackson, we don’t know we weren’t there. Or, MJ molested children, we don’t know we weren’t there, and as James stated, Lindy Chamberlain killing her child, they didn’t know as they weren’t there either, it was all circumstance. My point is, personally knowing what it is like to be accused of something, made to look very guilty and knowing no matter how bad it looks, you were innocent. Things are not always as they seem to be.
    This was taken from the link above::

    “Judge Claudio Pratillo Hellmann, said the court’s verdict “is the result of the truth that was created in the proceedings. But the real truth may be different. They may be responsible, but the evidence is not there.”

  16. Mikeo
    October 7, 2011 at 04:05

    Why is everybody so willing to believe the unbelievable and condemn Amanda Knox for murder when the evidence against her is so weak as to be nonexistent? You fools can go on believing she’s guilty for stupid reasons like “her blue eyes are as cold as the knife that slit Meredith’s throat” or some other stupid reason, but a reasonable panel of judges and jurors found that the police did not properly handle evidence and they forced confessions from Amanda and Raffaele. With fools like that in this world, we humans have a rather dim future.

  17. October 7, 2011 at 06:03

    Believe the unbelievable? That she got off scot free when only a fraction of the evidence was considered, the rest deliberately ignored and when she was tied to the scene by many items of evidence, with nothing supporting the story that she wasn’t? Yes, it really was unbelievable that she was released – staggering in fact. The major pundits who began pro-Knox and who have now actually turned around and started reading the evidence, mainly after the acquittal, have either gone quiet or have started having doubts about her innocence. It’s already started to come out and will continue.

    I see you keep pushing this same line the FOA has put out about no evidence. There was plenty, from the forensic to the physical to the psychological/behavioural. There was enough to convince 19 justices. If the verdict had been “insufficient evidence”, after ALL evidence had been reviewed, then OK, what could one say? But it wasn’t done like that, was it? If an accident investigator had operated like that, he’d be out of a job tomorrow.

    Now let’s look at the tone, the tenor of both sides. Have you seen the tweets from the FOA, calling Meredith a slut and vilifying John and Arline Kercher? Now go to TJMK and read some of it, note the tone. Let me just pick any at random and quote:

    Amanda Knox will be lucky if CNN’s popular legal commentator Nancy Grace doesn’t get on her case the way she still is on Casey Anthony’s. Nancy Grace says there is NO innnocent explanation for Knox’s second written confession placing her at the house (with Patrick Lumumba) and including observations that only someone who really was there could have known.

    Or:

    I’ve been careful about jumping to conclusions about Hellman because no one can say with absolute certainty what exactly he is doing right now. We don’t know where he stood throughout the debate, whether he voted for conviction or acquittal, and whether he is speaking for himself or for the entire jury right now. We’ll see the motivation report, which hopefully will allow us to understand more about their thought process.

    True many contributors come to conclusions but for TJMK to be called an anti-Amanda hate site? Sheesh – just go and read it, feel the tone of it, see how wild speculation is dealt with. Hate site? Coming from FOA? And look at their Grand Dame, Edda – lovely person, isn’t she? contrast her behaviour with the Kerchers.

    Many are saying and with good cause – this thing stinks.

  18. howdy
    October 7, 2011 at 08:36

    @Mikeo,

    The scream is confirmed. And it was not in the plan and it did upset the plan.

    The murder was not planned and it went terribly wrong. This cannot be confirmed but this is the only explanation for undressing the body after the murder. You need to remember that to the American, the idea of a fun party was to throw stones from the house to passing motorists!

    Everyone who has mentioned the scream even once was at the scene. Do you agree? This is the scream from the girl struggling for life and the judges need to address this.

    Well, their mobiles were off and their computers were not active. This was in the plan but their ISP can still tell about their surfing habits in the last few days. Their intelligence comes from watching crime movies. I shall trust the “black man” (even if he is telling lies, he cannot think more than 1-2 steps ahead) whereas the American (she is thinking 3-4 steps ahead; she is smart) reminds me of Cathy in the East of Eden. Surely you have read it, right?

    The remarkable thing is none of the accused had even a minor cut or wound on them. I do not know about the victim’s nail size, but the police must have scraped all the nails of the victim carefully. It is not possible for one attacker to avoid a single scratch on the body. Remember that one is fighting for life and the other is fighting for fun. This lack of evidence is itself the strongest evidence.

    @RENE ST;

    Please have some faith in science. We know that the sun is hot and the moon is cold. You cannot insist that you must touch and feel to say so. If the pot is hot to touch, the water cannot be cold. If there is no visible steam, the water is not boiling. I cannot guess why you could not answer. You have never seen a DNA, but the results that come after the PCR, Enzymes, Electrophoresis and some other tests, in the form of a “shaky lines” are right and believable?

    It is possible to tell the temperature of the water even without touching the pot. But you will need tools.

  19. October 7, 2011 at 13:41

    I feel quite good about it all now [as distinct from after the verdict]. They’re going to be hoisted by their own petards and as more people actually look at the evidence – I mean really look at it – it will become fashionable to question the acquittal and that can only end up in a nice appeal in one year.

    The evidence is there – we now only have to wait for the journos to actually delve and look at it. Nothing we can do or the Knox machine can do will have any effect now – it’s time for the journos.

    Routledge at the Mirror came out for Meredith today.

  20. Steve
    October 8, 2011 at 11:19

    truly amazing stuff here.. finding guilt of these 2 people shows a total lack of Occam’s Razor reasoning in the simple logic.. amazing coicendence that rudy was known to break into 2nd story windows by throwing a rock thru it, then climbling up and in.. i guess amanda and her bf must have known rudy’s mo and tried to frame him right? and other thing u people with faulty logic never get.. u claim amanda is guilty? then why give a false confession? u guys claim its a real confession that shows her guilt.. ok so why didnt she name rudy and raffaele? instead, she names someone she would know was not there, to try to save her own ass? its very clear that was suggested to her over and over and forced with coercion. u guys will ignore occam’s razor, and go on long overdrawn theories of guilt. ignoring the most obvious explanation..

    since you assume her and her bf’s guilt in this, answer these questions, ( which u wont, u will try to deflect)

    1. if staged crime scene, and you except rudy as being a part of this murder, how did they stage it in the exact same manner rudy was known to break into places?

    2. motive.. which is it?> satanic ritual? sex orgy? amanda pissed at meredith? or the last one offered by prosecution = no reason at all..

    3. why did mignini contradict is assertions of amanda being in the murder room, weilding the knife by now saying its possible she was not in the room?

    4, why are there bloody shoe prints of rudy in a small room, several of them, bloody hand prints, but no footprints of amanda or raff in blood in the room as well?

    5. if they managed to clean up only their footprints and not rudy’s (highly unlikely) where is the luminol swab mark evidence that would show a clean up?

    6. why wasnt the alleged footprints of amanda tested for blood? do you know luminol is only a test to show that blood COULD exist?

    7. why does police forensic officer lady in her notes say she did test them, and they came back negative?

    close = the last judge; of course he would say ” the real truth might, MIGHT be different from the truth decided by the evidence in the trial.. it is common italian culture to “save face”.. he does not want to take a ton of shit… the official verdict then, according to his statement would have been ” not guilty because the evidence is not enough” that is not what the official court ruling said, they said ” not guilty because the defendants did not commit the crime” wait to read his report.. he said what he said pubiically to save a little face with his own people… but go ahead, answer my points.. when u understand u cant, then u may understand u have an extreme bias… TG its likely none of you will ever sit on any jury.

  21. Steve
    October 8, 2011 at 11:22

    “Believe the unbelievable? That she got off scot free when only a fraction of the evidence was considered, the rest deliberately ignored and when she was tied to the scene by many items of evidence, with nothing supporting the story that she wasn’t? ”

    name the exact items entered into the official evidence log in court.. i also saw originally your claim of guilt based on a cctv alleged image of amanda. DOESNT EXIST.. the receipt for bleach? doesnt exist.. luminol highlighting a swab pattern bleach clean up? doesnt exist..

    but go ahead, name the exact evidence.. i wonder if u will even approve my comments… i got to see this one..

  22. October 8, 2011 at 18:45

    Just look at the Massei Report at the top of of the inner right sidebar and all your questions will be answered.

  23. Steve
    October 8, 2011 at 21:10

    i asked you to name it, not for me to look, u also have questions to answer i left for you. all i see from the massei report is a ton of conjecture, subjection, and innuendo. no evidence.. i also see a serious ignorance on what Occam’s Razor is really all about.

    perhaps u should wait for the Hellemen report.. if you want to believe these 2 are guilty. that is your right, but your’s and Judge Massei’s logic and reasoning is seriously flawed, because you both ignore the flow of evidence, what is evidence verses conjecture, etc. no person should never be locked away in prison on that. if u cant answer my questions, then the truth cannot be with your view.. there is not any point anyone who is a so called guilter brings up that does not have a simple Occam’s Razor answer.. Perhaps u have a bias?

  24. October 8, 2011 at 21:18

    Don’t be such a fool – it is in the Massei Report. There is so much evidence, it took 400 pages. Read the effing thing and stop talking out of your a***. What do you want, for me to handwrite out of the report?

    If your so effing lazy, then don’t bother carrying on about evidence.

    Quite apart from that, it’s at TJMK in the sidebar, in the posts, in the comments and also at PMF. Then you have my two psots where the evidence was listed in detail. Then the answers in this thread, including that of the DNA.

    OK, you had the chance to say something sensible. Come back when you’ve read those and we’ll talk again.

  25. October 9, 2011 at 18:54

    OK – this comments thread is being closed off because:

    1. There’s a new post coming up in a couple of hours;
    2. Knox trolls are now flooding in with comments like:

    two innocent kids were kept in prison for four years, having been initially convicted in the media without sufficient evidence

    … which has been shown in the last few posts to be utter baloney – they were convicted on evidence which was reviewed by 19 justices and:

    a desperate attempt to frame them, they submitted bogus DNA evidence

    … which has no basis in court records, only in Knox troll spin. I’ve said over and over that those for Meredith dip into the record for their statements. Knox trolls offer only abuse and invent situations.

    The only new piece of evidence brought up by the Knox machine is the hard disk wiping. Now, that is certainly one I’ll be looking at and if necessary, openly asking questions about.

    What the Knox trollers can’t seem to get into their heads is that this is not a confrontation between pro-Amanda and anti-Amanda – all they can see is Knox, Knox, Knox, with all her spin. I’m not interested in the convicted killer and her lover, I’m interested in those still being hurt by the crime by those three that night.

    Those at TJMK and PMF also couldn’t give a damn who the murderers actually were but the evidence says it was those three and so they want closure for the Kerchers on that basis.

    3. As I opened with on tonight’s post, there’s no point rehashing old ground – it’s all been done, it’s all there for people to read as they will. It’s only important now that new material be presented, something which might affect the outcome. We need to move forward to the next phase in this – Hellman’s explanation for his bizarre actions and then the Cassation itself.

    So, on that basis, the comments thread on this particular post will now close. I think we’ve all had a fair run at it.

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