How far does la difference go?

This post is a bit hard hat. Bound to stir – some – people up ^_^

Question: Is there a difference in how men and women think?

One thing I notice about how guys seem to think. They just love theory and they are (in their own heads) most always right. They love theory sooo much, that, once they have one, it is like a pair of rose tinted spectacles. They have a hard time seeing the real world any more on account of their belief getting in the way.

This is a follow on from my comments about Marxists and Marxism in James’ post about Critical Theory (Yayy! I did a link!). where I said that the big mistake Marxism makes is to assume society is static and the things they observed were the normal “base state” What they observed was a single snapshot in of a dynamic system.  So it is like it is built on sand.

I compared anyone who messes with things on that basis to monkeys playing with the works of a clock. Mistaking the map for the territory and theory for fact.

I would put “Climate” in that same “too complicated and not nearly under stood” box… and climate theory in there in the “who knows?” box. And this is just the pretend scientific stuff. There is all that stuff you have to take on pure faith on top.

So how does this have anything to do with male/female thought? Well my theory ^_^, based on observation in the field ^_^, is that that way of thinking is a trap that way more guys fall into than girls.

Mistaking the map for the territory.

Oh and I know lots of both males – and – females just don’t think and just accept stuff they are told. Who Knows, maybe females are more likely to do that because they are less dominant?

I think females are not strong on questioning, because even when they can easily see something is nonsense they go along knowing it makes a guy feel better not to have it questioned, and unless it directly influences their lives let sleeping dogs lie.

I also think guys like to build castles in the air while girls are more grounded in every day practicality. I am sometimes totally amazed the arguments goys come up with, like lace you can see thru.

I think guys make the theory and being right like part of their manhood or something. Or like you said something bad about their family. I just don’t think girls react like that.

So, I am saying I think the ones who play with complicated clockwork because they only – think – they know what they are doing, the ones who don’t see the world for the theory are mostly guys. What do – you – think?

18 comments for “How far does la difference go?

  1. June 8, 2012 at 06:07

    One thing I notice about how guys seem to think. They just love theory and they are (in their own heads) most always right. They love theory sooo much, that, once they have one, it is like a pair of rose tinted spectacles. They have a hard time seeing the real world any more on account of their belief getting in the way.

    Being female, Moggsy, naturally you would see it in that 100%, blanket way. Could it be that what you really mean is “if guys disagree with you”?

    Actually, a certain proportion* of men do not like theory but fact. That’s why many men insult others by accusing them of “conspiracy theory”, whilst retaining the “rational” mantle for themselves.

    Far from “they are (in their own heads) most always right”, this proportion is right only because it bothers to research and find the answers, plus one vital addition – it can adjust its view if shown to be wrong. In my case, this was what happened with climate “science”.

    This is why, except in philosophical discussions such as over freewill and determinism, most of this blog is given over to what “is”, backed by data underlining why, rather than just assertion plucked out of the air.

    It’s also for reasoned faith rather than blind faith or no faith.

    This is also why this blog is so against “the PC narrative” [male and female] and the ideological stance or “unsupported theory as fact”. It’s rooted instead in reality, backed by quotes showing why it is real.

    It rejects the relativist’s “there is no fact, only my fact and your fact”. Rubbish – of course there are immutable facts within the human experience, e.g. that mixing yellow and blue gives you green.

    The stance of this blog on “theory” is that there is nothing wrong with theory in itself but only as a stepping stone, a hypothesis from which to find out and adjust that theory. It is not a be-all-and-end-all in itself and certainly not a basis for State policy.

    This point is critical. Theory in itself is not a dirty word – only when no attempt is made, with facts, to justify it. This is why emotion and ad hominem, avoiding the issue and so on are unacceptable in this context.

    OK, this next one I’ll buy into for the hell of it, not because I believe it:

    I think females are not strong on questioning, because even when they can easily see something is nonsense they go along knowing it makes a guy feel better not to have it questioned.

    And of course why almost all husbands learn to shut up because even though they know she’s talking tosh, it’s better to say nothing and keep the peace in the household. Every long term husband who says, “Yes dear … yes dear … as you say dear,” has learnt the basic principle of keeping his trap shut. 😉

    I never learnt it.

    Connected to this is the other thing every man knows fullwell and that is that:

    “The female is never wrong”.

    It’s in so many quotes, so many anecdotes. A man can never win an argument with a female because she begins with “no matter what, I am right, I will never change my mind despite the evidence to the contrary and you can try to force me to look at that evidence all you like but it cuts no ice, so on that basis, you may proceed”. LOL.

    I’ve had women actually come out with that in a humorous way:

    “Never argue with a woman.”

    Again, it’s a principle I never learnt.

    I bought into that just to counterbalance Moggsy’s assertion but what I really believe is that every single person thinks he or she is right, male, female, young and old. You’ve all seen the four year old who is quite convinced she [or he] has it all on a string, the way the world works.

    He/she then grows up building on that and necessarily adjusting it along the way to fit with the facts but at all times, he/she is “right” in his/her own mind. This is where it comes back to facts. It’s all very well to have a theory on some subject but you need to be able to quote chapter and verse as to why.

    As to someone who probably does know everything [the subject, not the scribe]:

    http://nourishingobscurity.com/2012/06/07/free-will-and-predestination-concluded/comment-page-1/#comment-209606

    * Just what percentage I have no idea.

  2. Moggsy
    June 8, 2012 at 07:28

    James, Well I guess this post is being “contentious” (great word) ^_^. And I am generalising to make the points that I am. Nor do I think I am being PC with this post, maybe even Un PC. Shock/Horror!!

    I think you will find that your “The female is never wrong”.” And “Never argue with a woman.” comments have their exact equivalent for females. And more often. Maybe it is the perspective?

    Guys often insist they are right even when they must know they are wrong, and quite honestly, I have agreed a guy is right rather than make a point or more often just let the subject slide to be told “so I admitted they were right”. I do think it is some male competitive thing.

    If I am wrong I don’t have this big kudos thing about admitting it, but I am as careful as I can be not to be wrong. I am open to sensible argument and persuasion, also compromise. In fact ^_^ I really think women tend to compromise and give way much more than men with M/F interactions ^_^

    I think your comments about conspiracy theories are beside the point. You don’t even argue against my (Marxism) example., partly I am guessing because you maybe agree with it some? And my argument can equally be applied all over.

    I think my main point stands so far .

  3. Robert the Biker
    June 8, 2012 at 07:59

    What James said.

    If a man passes a comment in the middle of a forest with no woman to hear him, is he still wrong?
    Oh, and while I’m on, it doesn’t do you any harm to put the toilet seat down, no more than it does us to lift it.
    *runs away and climbs a tree*

  4. June 8, 2012 at 08:10

    I think my main point stands so far .

    As it’s either 20 paragraphs or bite my tongue, I’ll bite my tongue [time constraints]. 😉

    Robert – yes.

  5. Moggsy
    June 8, 2012 at 08:51

    James, Typical! My main point still stands unopposed, unaddressed ^_^

    Robert, Well it just depends on if it is some stupid comment that he just obviously hasn’t thought thru I guess… ^_^ Then obviously he would be totally wrong.

    On the other subject, and don’t blame me if you just hand me ammunition.. Personally I think it looks much neater with the lid down too. Aaand (lovely ammo) that reminds me… Those who clean aim to please. It is real nice if guys aim too… pleease.

  6. Robert the Biker
    June 8, 2012 at 09:53

    While I do realise that any comment a man makes after the woman has ‘pronounced’ is, in fact, the beginning of an entirely new arguement:
    It has always been ME who cleaned up the mess and is to this day, I leave the lid up for ‘inspection’.
    As regards Marx, he and Engels were part of High German society and therefore used to coming up with wholly theoretical and airy fairy nonsense.
    I would note that the only two places it really took off were Russia and China, where the peasantry had been used to a top down system that hammered them into the ground. I do not believe (despite Lenins views) that it would ever have taken off in Germany.

  7. ivan
    June 8, 2012 at 10:46

    Are we talking philosophical or practical here?

    As a practical engineer I ignore theory – unless it has been proved beyond doubt and even then I am prepared to dump it if necessary. After all the engineers maxim used to be ‘if it works, use it, someone can work out the theory later’.

    Philosophically, it descends to the age old battle of the sexes and no matter what a man says the woman is always right 😉

  8. Moggsy
    June 8, 2012 at 11:12

    Robert, I carefully didn’t say who (what sex) cleans the bathroom. It is cool that you do, but I think you might be more the exception, not the rule.

    On that subject. I like to close the lid because I figure when you operate the “system” then there will be little aerosol droplets created and the lid will keep them and any germs they have in them within the bowl, so it is not – just – because I think it looks neater.

    I just figured this on my own, but I just now googled it, and guess what? Looks like I figured right. I was not just me being picky/finicky.

    http://www.cmmonline.com/infection-control/article/biowarfare-in-the-restroom-mitigating-toilet-sneeze

    Tho “toilet sneeze” sounds disgusting Ewww!!! And I didn’t think specially of toothbrushes Ewwww!!

    I agree with your comments about Marx et al, I don’t think they make my point invalid and Marxists were just the example I used, the same mindset is used on most any theory or ism. It is not exclusively male, just saying I think males fall into it much much more often.

    Only took off in Russia/China? Tiny little places. It was imposed other places by conquest or exported revolutionary movements.. and isn’t Socialism part of the same spectrum? You don’t think it would have taken off in Germany but National Socialism was quite popular in Germany for a while, but sort of petered out after 1945. Then half of it went communist. Still it was bound to fail or mutate sooner or later. My point was it was a theory based on false assumptions. Is pragmatic China really “Communist” anymore?

    As for the so called battle of the sexes Ivan, I feel like I am fighting loosing batles here against “Blahblah… pat them on the head and ignore ’em” No one, or rather no males, seem to really listen to my arguments just look for some “obique” (great word) way of putting me down no matter what. Sigh! All I can say is ^_^ areosols.

    Have it your way guys.

  9. June 8, 2012 at 11:48

    “Mistaking the map for the territory.”

    Nice phrase and I think you are right. It may be a survival thing, something to do with males having to be alert for possibilities, for things not being what they seem – even though they usually are.

    But when survival is not threatened then this largely male trait runs amok and we have to contend with all kinds of nonsense. However, if we end up with a new consensus, however insane that consensus may be, then it seems to me that men and women are equally gullible.

  10. ivan
    June 8, 2012 at 14:07

    Moggsy, there always has been and I think always will be, a battle of the sexes – it is built into ma.. peoplekind 😉

    That being said, it shouldn’t detract from an individuals worth. Lets face it, everyone are different. It is those very differences that make a person that person and not, as all governments now appear to be doing, an obedient serf.

    I can understand your feelings when men try to find a way to put you down. I have known and worked with some brilliant female engineers at the sharp, get your hand dirty, end of engineering. In fact I fired one guy that kept on trying to put down both of our female engineers – they had more ability than he ever would gain no matter how long he worked. As far as I am concerned there is no place for such a show of stupidity.

  11. June 8, 2012 at 15:15

    Chrysalis:

    Good work, Detective Moggsy – now we can truly dominate the world in a Matriarchial State of Marxism, as Higham describes – today, James Higham’s blog, next the world

    😉

    Of course, I’m joking – and though I agree with many of Moggsy’s points, I do know some pretty alpha female type women who mark their territory every bit as much as a man would.

    But Amen, on the men being stuck in their own heads, but I think it’s less about being about being stuck in their own theories and pseudoscience and more about going way too far up their own bums, about any subject, on any given day, so that we can’t pull them out just to look at things from a different perspective than their own.

    Higham and Bob the Biker, I don’t know what kinda women you’ve been around most of your life, but are you going to pretend that men are less arrogant and rigid in their thinking than women, in general, and that men are better listeners?

    Now James, weren’t you just saying that women let their compassion/benefit-of-the-doubt giving affect decision making? And wouldn’t that be contradictory to your point, then, that WE don’t consider all the options?

    The problem with intelligent men is that once they imagine themselves proving their theory into law, they cannot think outside the box from it and allow for other possibilities – which includes our previous topic of faith vs. atheism – as well as right wings vs left.

    Their side is the correct one and completely intolerant of the other and therefore stifles all progress towards solution.

    Canna get a witness, up in herah?

  12. Revolution Harry
    June 8, 2012 at 21:06

    “…where I said that the big mistake Marxism makes is to assume society is static and the things they observed were the normal “base state” What they observed was a single snapshot in of a dynamic system. So it is like it is built on sand.”

    I think James was referring to ‘Cultural Marxism’ which approaches things in a different way albeit towards the same ends. Those behind CM know full well society is fluid and what they attempted (and to a large degree succeeded) to do, was to manipulate society in a direction to suit Them. They did this having understood some fundamental aspects of the nature of mankind be they spiritual, political, moral, physical or psychological. They then developed techniques and mediums through which they could manipulate these aspects of man. CM is just one part of the broader ‘conspiracy’ and it’s only after researching the other components that the full importance of the Frankfurt School can be realised.

    On the male/female discussion it’s fair to say that the overwhelming majority of those who have even begun to see this bigger picture are males. To be even more politically incorrect it’s ‘white’ males, which goes some way to realising why they are such a target for Them.

  13. June 8, 2012 at 21:17

    LOL! I had big laugh by reading the entry and the comments of James. [didn’t have time to read all the comments, sorry!] I agree, women like to ‘shut up’ for the sake of peace. 🙂 Yes, I think men like to build those castles, really big ones, if you ask me 🙂 hehehe

  14. Moggsy
    June 11, 2012 at 10:48

    Dear All, Thanks for all your comments. Re reading them and not me meaning to be difficult here…

    On Marxism. I mentioned it just and only as an example of what I saw as a whole bunch of towering castles built on (at best) sand. All sorts and degrees of it, including watered down versions (socialism).

    I was arguing it does not work because the assumptions underneath were false. There was discussion about Marxism different sorts. Nothing that trashed my assertion, mostly actually fitting with it. But it was incidental, and example.

    James not being mean but, this kind of justified what I said. You seemed to chase off after just the word “theory”. Like you made up a whole conversation or maybe big argument out of practically thin air around it that I never said.

    So it was like the ball got kicked out of the field and no one noticed.

    And there are lots of male /female fixed positions coming about cleaning and who can’t admit they are wrong and stuff… all pretty much beside the point.

    So tho it seemed a successful post because of all the comment, but maybe a bit unsatisfying because they were skating round the topic?

  15. June 11, 2012 at 11:27

    Moggsy, you need to know the difference between analogy, which is used to illustrate and facts, which are used to argue. Both have their place.

  16. Moggsy
    June 11, 2012 at 12:52

    QED. What more can I say?

  17. June 11, 2012 at 14:13

    That you understand that. 😉

  18. Moggsy
    June 12, 2012 at 07:00

    QED? why wouldnt I undertand that?

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