Yes but is it free speech which comes out of it?

The immediate issue is clear enough:

The White House has drafted an executive order for President Donald Trump’s signature that would instruct federal antitrust and law enforcement agencies to open investigations into the business practices of Alphabet Inc.’s Google, Facebook Inc. and other social media companies.

Two main issues – one is, for example, FB failing to protect data and the other is Twitter’s, for example, shadowbanning of conservative voices.

With the first, govt has you banged to rights anyway in their datastore – they have everything they would need. With the second, the whole system is banning conservative voices, not just the giants.

The danger in acting on Google etc. is that, though there does seem evidence of what they are doing, once the banning of ANY voices by govt starts, where does it end? Once you have to run anything past govt to say, even things anti-us, then it’s not much in the way of a free speech victory, no?

[H/T Chuckles]

14 comments for “Yes but is it free speech which comes out of it?

  1. September 24, 2018 at 08:13

    Free speech is an Enlightenment folly which was intended to undermine Christianity (which it did very successfully).

    Allowing your political enemies to have free speech is just silly. They will use it to destroy you. It’s like handing your worst enemy a loaded gun.

    Most of the catastrophes that have afflicted our civilisation over the past century – feminism, homosexual activism, militant atheism, the hollowing out of Christianity, the mass immigration, the antiracist hysteria – have been enabled by free speech.

    • September 24, 2018 at 09:33

      And yet, like democracy, one could go on for days about all its bad points but in the end, it has to be because the alternative is 1984.

      • Bill
        September 24, 2018 at 11:40

        Be afraid, be very afraid. But keep voting because you know your vote counts, or so you are told.
        And then sit down and realise this ‘going down the shitter’ meme is actually a product of democracy.

        We are doomed, doomed I tell ya.

        Free speech not allowed in a democracy wow. Surely that’s 1984!
        Can’t say for sure because I left my love of fairy tale books back in my childhood where it belongs.

      • September 24, 2018 at 12:10

        And yet, like democracy, one could go on for days about all its bad points but in the end, it has to be because the alternative is 1984.

        You’re thinking like a liberal.

        The alternative is a society that is an organic and coherent society based on ties of mutual responsibility and traditional sources of authority. You know, Christendom.

        I don’t see how freedom of speech can be reconciled with religion. Freedom of speech will always lead to atheism, secularism and hedonism. Free speech leads to chaos. Chaos leads to totalitarianism. Freedom of speech is part of the Enlightenment death cult.

        • September 24, 2018 at 19:37

          No, I’m thinking like a free man. I’ve seen too much of the tyranny you like.

          • Bill
            September 24, 2018 at 20:34

            Yes I smiled when I read on twitter that should an election be called today you wouldn’t vote.

      • ScotchedEarth
        September 24, 2018 at 19:17

        Democracy—at least the untrammelled and ever-expanding version of it prevailing currently in the West—is a false god, and cannot be said to have delivered greater liberty (libertinism, but not liberty). The reverse: as democracy has expanded, so our liberties (along with our income, quality of life and our very nation) have eroded.
        As described in the opening passage to A.J.P. Taylor’s English History 1914–1945:

        Until August 1914 a sensible, law-abiding Englishman could pass through life and hardly notice the existence of the state, beyond the post office and the policeman. … [B]roadly speaking, the state acted only to help those who could not help themselves. It left the adult citizen alone.

        From ‘hardly notic[ing] the existence of the state’ we can now hardly escape it—from constant CCTV and electronic surveillance to licensing for this, certification for that, permits for the other. And far from the State acting ‘only to help those who could not help themselves’, it now ceaselessly nags us, telling us what to eat, drink and inhale, who to employ, and which customers to serve.
        Democracy as the alternative to 1984? Democracy has delivered 1984.

        • September 24, 2018 at 19:52

          A.J.P. Taylor was a socialist who wished to remove people’s freedoms.

          I’m afraid I and this blog reject marxism outright. We are conservative – I have lived with the devastation of socialism for some time and you wouldn’t wish it on your worst enemy.

          The idea of living under some politburo’s idea of an ideal society, coerced from cradle to grave, stagnant, in penury – no thanks.

          • ScotchedEarth
            September 24, 2018 at 21:14

            A.J.P. Taylor’s political views are irrelevant to his description of the British nation ante-1914. The only valid criticism of that passage is if it is to any degree incorrect.

            Are we to be SJWs and reject an author’s entire œuvre because of one or two opinions of theirs that we disagree with? That will leave us with very bare shelves—and no Orwell (a socialist to his dying breath) for a start.

            Rattling on about Marxism and politburos is just strawmanning. (Incidentally, A.J.P. Taylor was a supporter of the Labour Party, and his ‘socialism’ was that of Atlee and Bevan; while there is much to criticise about that, it is just silly to witter on about Marxism and politburos in the context of the 1945 Labour Party and its supporters—such as the 11,995,152 Britons who voted for them.)

            As illustration of how democracy is sending Western Civilisation to Hell are recent elections in Europe.
            E.g. after all the trouble that refugees and Muslims have brought Sweden, one would expect Sverigedemokraterna to have walked their recent election—yet a mere 15.15% of the Swedish electorate voted for them; far less than voted for Arbetarepartiet-Socialdemokraterna, the very party most responsible for Sweden’s problems.
            E.g. after all the trouble that refugees and Muslims have brought France (not least the 2015 Paris attacks and Nice 1016), one would expect Front national to have walked the 2017 election—instead, only 22.36% of the French electorate voted for Marine Le Pen in the second round.
            E.g. after all the trouble that refugees and Muslims have brought Germany, one would expect AfD to have walked the 2017 election—instead, a mere 9.53% voted for them.

            Democracy is ethnic, cultural and national suicide.

        • Bill
          September 24, 2018 at 20:30

          Almost. It is the belief in the role of citizen which delivers 1984 and every variant thereof like the one currently prevailing on this island and the one the illustrious blog host experienced in the Motherland.
          The only thing that owes a debt to the state is the citizen, hence my banging on about getting your name off the electoral roll.
          And the only thing that lays claim to the citizen is its owner.

        • September 25, 2018 at 01:16

          Democracy as the alternative to 1984? Democracy has delivered 1984.

          And democracy will always lead to that same result. It’s democracy that creates the busybody Nanny State. It’s democracy that promotes the idea that we should all interfere in each other’s private affairs. It’s democracy that makes every single aspect of life political, and therefore subject to regulation.

          Democracy is a special form of tyranny in which the people forge their own chains.

          But you can’t convince conservatives of these things because conservatives are in fact true believers in liberalism.

  2. The Blocked Dwarf
    September 24, 2018 at 23:07

    “one would expect AfD to have walked the 2017 election—instead, a mere 9.53% voted for them.”-Scotched Earth

    It will be informative and interesting to see how they fare in the State Parliament Elections in Bavaria and Hessia .Both Bavaria and Hessia not being former DDR states. Polls for Bavaria suggesting,i think, maybe 10%. Seehofer’s recent attack on Merkel about immigrants did the CSU some damage it seems. In the weird way that German politics work-ie stability of the government is more important to voters than tackling the immigrant crisis or any other crisis. Almost any other country than Germany, Seehofer’s forcing Merkel to take immigration seriously would have been a vote winner..but as the Bavarians themselves say…with pride: „In Bayern gehen die Uhren anders”(“in Bavaria the clocks run differently”-Willy Brandt , I think). I’m expecting the Greens to do well…Gott help Bavaria and Hessia.

  3. September 25, 2018 at 04:30

    DforD and SE quite wrong here by selectively putting cases and ignoring what happens when it’s gone.

    Rattling on about Marxism and politburos is just strawmanning.

    No, warning people, reminding them. Textbook theorists are one thing but I’ve lived with Marxist victims and until you’ve done that all is just theory and philosophy.

    Freedom and the option to vote are the only way. Clever arguments why they should be removed lead to 1984. It’s this coercion painted as something good which is the most insidious part.

    • September 25, 2018 at 04:42

      “But you can’t convince conservatives of these things because conservatives are in fact true believers in liberalism.”

      Typical leftist claptrap, designed to part people from the only thing separating them from the nations with tyranny. The hijacking and abuse of the word liberal by the left.

      Note rhe clever legerdemain in using “liberal”, meaning classical liberal, as a pejorative, in the way Marxism is most certainly a pejorative and the very word liberal had been hijacked and perverted, not unlike the word marriage.

      This is global elite, this is rampant leftism, putting impossible utopias and blighting people’s lives to try to reach them.

      Truth is that the elite which SE and DforD want to impose, the “benign” dictatorship they fail to explain is so many times worse. I’ve been there, I’ve seen it.

      Any form of coercion in that “you will live according to my ideas” of what a good society is, is tyrannical. It’s the very forcing which is how the left gives itself away every single time.

      The freedom to live, associate, worship is precisely what the global left is hellbent on removing from people now, even down to brainwashing infants.

      It’s the oldest chestnut in the book to attack democracy without putting a viable alternative. Truly it was said that it’s the least worst variant of some pretty bad variants.

      Never, ever let the left get you to part with hard won freedoms. I’ve seen that in Russia and as my mate there says, it robs a people of their souls. That is where we’re headed now. Textbook concepts have zero to do with what happens to a people under Marxism, the stagnation, the giving up, the sapping of the soul.

      It is far from a strawman, something to be dismissed. Far from it.

      Stay a fighter for your freedom, for if you don’t, the future doom is already assured.

      My main argument will be put in another thread, possibly today.

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